Technics WSA1 :: Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting


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Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

Hi Guys, I'm experimenting with the modeling parameters and I can't tell the difference between Fix and Move on the Formant setting. I've looked at it on a spectrum analyzer, I've listened while changing the setting, I've raised and lowered the Depth, a…

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Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

javelin276

javelin276
United States

Total Posts: 27
Joined: January 2, 2018

Hi Guys, I'm experimenting with the modeling parameters and I can't tell the difference between Fix and Move on the Formant setting. I've looked at it on a spectrum analyzer, I've listened while changing the setting, I've raised and lowered the Depth, and I can't really hear much of a difference. Can someone tell me what this parameter does? It's on page 20 in the Practical Applications manual.
Thor

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Posted on February 1, 2018 at 4:36 PM
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5 Replies

DBGalaxy5

DBGalaxy5
Australia

Total Posts: 12
Joined: August 10, 2015

Re: Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

Hey javelin,

Sorry for the late response, however given the number of WSA's on the planet, it's a bit of a miracle there is even a place for 'potential' exchanges of questions and ideas (so thanks to the forum owners for that).

I will likely raise more questions than answers here, so I apologise again.

As I have detailed elsewhere, I have owned my WSA since they were originally cleared out 'cheap'. However, I am primarily a bass player, and only get back for a fiddle on my electronica once in a blue moon. It's probably a couple of years since I last posted.

My own ventures into the resonator side of things have been pretty perplexing. Certainly the manual seems on occasion to give a bit of detail about some terms that I would guess are more obvious to most, yet other times (such as in your example) terms fairly specific to the WSA are left fairly open. I cannot provide any more 'definition' to the parameter than the manual provides BUT I can advise that it is possible to set up a sound such that switching between fix and move makes a notable change in the tone.

I see you raised and lowered the depth, and I will say up front that I haven't tried myriads of combinations, however I can explain why I used the settings I did to check your question.

I was looking into the resonator side myself because I realised I had not really ever tried to understand what is actually happening. I had only messed around with the parameters to see what sort of results I got and this had always been mostly random tweaking. It became fairly evident (and this should have been obvious to me from the manual) that fitting is a pretty key factor i.e. with this parameter maxed out, any other changes to the resonator were more evident (and equally, with this parameter at 0, the resonator is essentially off). As such to check your question I maxed out fitting for both resonators on page 1/3 of the resonator modelling pages. Another key parameter is 'position' on the page you are referring to. Again, if this is at 0 the resonator is basically off. So again I maxed this out (along with depth). The final thing I did to avoid masking the difference is remove any other tone shaping from the sound. e.g. envelopes, filters, effects and reverb.

I tried this with a couple of drivers and both showed quite significant differences for FIX and MOVE with the parameters set as above. I have included an image for one of these examples. These waves are the same note at the same scale (size, not musical scale) with the only difference being one is FIX the other is MOVE. What you might feel is that one looks like an inversion of the other but I can confirm that it is a variation of the width of the 'pulse' for want of a better term. Not that I am saying that formant = PWM. I am merely saying that in my observation this is the easiest way to describe the difference.

It is also worth noting that the difference is greater at the extremities of the keyboard. I am unsure if there is a defined central point, but around the centre the waveforms are less different and I assume will be identical at one specific note.

I hope this gives you something to play around with. I would certainly be interested in hearing of any specific discoveries.

As an aside, I also found (and I am happy to be proven wrong about this or any of my observations) that pretty much all of the resonator 'variants' - that is variants of any one type of resonator - are merely using the same resonator but with preset changes to the parameters. In other words if the bright and mute flare resonators are adjusted so that the parameters are the same, they sound the same. I am a tiny tiny bit peeved by this as it does mean that the true number of available resonators is much smaller.

In the same vein, I find it a bit frustrating that you cannot change resonator without changing associated parameters. The way things are configured it makes it much more difficult to do direct comparisons with only changes to the resonator.

I have also found - so far - that with large fitting values (i.e. strong resonator settings) the sound of the driver is almost always (if not actually always) greatly softened, and that it is not possible to get a sharp attack phase back even with the amplitude envelope.

Finally (well, probably not finally, but finally in terms of what I am going to document) I am rather confused by the detune and and keyshift parameters in the resonator pages. I do note a change with altering these parameters, but I would be lying if I said I understood them, and as such cannot make an educated guess as to the results I would get. Indeed extreme changes to there seem to all but eliminate the resonance. The similar parameters for pitch are far more predictable but I was hoping to use these to create additional detuned resonators to in essence provide 8 oscillators per sound.

Oh well. All god fun I guess.

Posted on June 19, 2018 at 8:57 AM

javelin276

javelin276
United States

Total Posts: 27
Joined: January 2, 2018

Re: Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

Finally! Someone with an answer I can work from! Thanks, I'll give that a try when I get back home. I'm on travel for the next two weeks for work so I have to wait before I can experiment with the WSA1R again.

Also, I'm writing a short paper on the WSA1R detailing what the different resonators look like on a spectrum analyzer, which helps in understanding what it's doing as you apply each of the resonators. They are really just shaped filters, a combination of a comb filter and a broader shaped filter. I'll post that when I get back home.
Javelin

Posted on June 19, 2018 at 11:15 PM

DBGalaxy5

DBGalaxy5
Australia

Total Posts: 12
Joined: August 10, 2015

Re: Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

Glad to be of help (hoping, of course, that it does prove to be of help).

Look forward to your findings too. Hope it contains a few images from your spectrum analysis, as I love to work visually

I am pursuing a few lines of investigation myself, no doubt followed by another long period of inactivity on that front.

If I establish anything that I think may be of potential interest I will note it either here, or on a new thread (if I do the latter I will make a note here to cross reference).

I did just read a document on line that was about formants and filters and whilst my short term memory is sometimes questionable, I seem to recall a diagram in that document that was very similar to the one in the Technics manuals that illustrates the driver resonator relationship. I am not entirely sure it offers us any help as it was about human voice synthesis but I can dig out the link if you'd like. I stumbled upon it as a result of investigating my possibly tenuous use of the term "pulse width" in my previous response.

Sod it. Dug up the link anyway.

http://www2.ak.tu-berlin.de/~fhein/Alias/Studio/Miranda/Csound/Synt...

Posted on June 20, 2018 at 1:33 AM

jd5live

jd5live
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 360
Joined: June 8, 2014

Re: Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

Hi Folks, Glad to see the forum doing it's job, bringing users together to help each other. I hope this will grow, I must confess that my knowledge of the the WSA1 is not what I would like as my expertise is mostly with the KN keyboards and the Organs/Ensembles as I was a Dealer in the early 1990's. However I would like to earn more and now finding members posting queries and ideas rather than just asking for Manuals is great. I know the WSA was produced around the time of the KN3000 Arranger Keyboard which has a good range of editable features but nowhere the scope of the synth. It was sad that Technics decided to place the WSA1 product in it's established organ dealer network rather than than marketing it in the group gear type outlets ( at least this was the case in the UK.) I look forward to see future items to help us synth newbies and maybe we can exchange ideas that will work on both WSA and KN to benefit us all.
Thanks again John (jd5live)

Posted on June 20, 2018 at 12:42 PM

DBGalaxy5

DBGalaxy5
Australia

Total Posts: 12
Joined: August 10, 2015

Re: Modeling-Connection-Formant-Fix/Move Setting

John,

I note your comment as follows:-

"maybe we can exchange ideas that will work on both WSA and KN to benefit us all."


As much as I love that idea in principle, your (probably) unique position means that you know where the potential overlaps occur. I wouldn't have the foggiest what areas of the WSA being discussed may be worth providing to the KN crowd.

Whilst I am here, I stated that with the "position" parameter at '0' on the modelling connection page, the resonator would effectively be off. I shall retract that statement as I have established that this is not the case. Having said that I still believe it does make any other changes on that specific page moot, and equally reduces the effect of any other resonator adjustments, but it does not completely disable the resonator per se.

EDIT: Re: the KN3000

Whilst I certainly didn't mean to seem harsh, when I re-read what I had written I felt it could be taken that way, so rather than continue to comment in ignorance - as I did - I had a very quick scan of the KN3000 manual.

Indeed, whilst I had heard of similarities in the past, I am nonetheless a little surprised as to how similar the KN and WSA are. I reiterate the brevity of my scan, but the primary differences seem to be modelling, less comprehensive effects, routing, controllers, and combinations. (I guess that sounds like a big list, but the things that are more similar would be a much much bigger list).

So I am now marginally more educated and could potentially see where information may be shared. However I feel I may still be seen as 'Mister Negative' (though not intentionally) as it would seem most - if not all - areas of discussion around the WSA that are not hardware related revolve around the modelling side of things.

Still, it is perhaps possible that us WSA-ers are too focused on this aspect of things. I would be fascinated to know any tips or tricks that the KN crew have that might transfer to the WSA in the areas that they do have on common. It may inspire me (us) to look more closely at different aspects of the keyboard.

Posted on June 21, 2018 at 6:03 AM